“The stuff happening in this country is just disgraceful, I don’t even know how else to say it,” Cissy Jones tells me about Florida’s ‘Don’t Say Gay Bill’ and the wider landscape of LGBTQ+ rights in the United States right now. “But the fact is that Disney is a massive corporation and the people who work in animation are not the people in charge of the company.”
Disney has been the subject of multiple controversies in recent weeks surroundings its support of Republican politicians and damaging anti-queer legislation. Its stance was obvious, and no donations or backpedaling would reverse its initial position that has proven actively damaging to the queer communities it claims to support.
Employees were quick to speak out, whether it be The Owl House creator Dana Terrace raising thousands for the Zebra Coalition or Pixar releasing a damning statement surrounding its own stories being robbed of representation in the past. Disney was quick to turn tail and reverse its position, hoping to change the rhetoric and present itself as the good guy. It’s a complicated situation, and not one to be taken lightly.
It can be easy to paint the entirety of Disney as problematic when discourse like this arises, but the reality is that thousands of passionate creators within the company are trying to enact change. To push inclusive stories and usher in a new generation of talent who aren’t afraid to bring their authentic selves to the things they create. I recently sat down with Cissy Jones and Sarah-Nicole Robles to talk about this.
“It’s disheartening, maddening, saddening, and so awful to see where their money is going,” Jones says in regard to Disney’s donations to Florida Republicans. “But then in turn to see people like Dana [Terrace] speak out truly at the risk of their career and future opportunities because this is not the time to stay silent. Will Disney change? I hope so. But again, animation is not the corporate suit. Not in the slightest.”
Jones’ closest connection to Disney is via Lilith Clawthorne in The Owl House, while Robles stars as main protagonist Luz Noceda. They are at the centre of a fundamentally queer show on Disney Channel, so watching the parent company go against everything it stands for feels like a slap in the face.
“When a company or anything is so big it all becomes very abstract,” Robles tells me. “Decisions are made by someone who is 15 times removed and things like that. So I think it takes a lot of courage to speak out, but it makes me really proud that our team does so. I always say that I’m gonna do whatever I can to sleep at night and so I can’t imagine making money off these children who finally are being represented and seeing themselves, and these adults who are so relieved and grateful that they have representation in the queer community. We aren’t all the weirdos that we used to be, we’re seen now.
“I can’t imagine being comfortable taking money and working and enjoying that without standing by them. I see no other way but to stand with the community with this outrage. There’s just so much fear, and those bills, when you listen to the conversations around them there’s so much ignorance, they’re so vague on purpose. It’s all political, it’s all a ploy.”
It’s scary to hear Jones and Robles talk about the implications of legislation in the United States right now, and how young queer people must bear the brunt of this ignorance. “The part that’s so ugly and dirty about it is that [the bill] doesn’t even mean anything,” Robles continues. “When you look through it you’re like what is this? This is gonna have implications you don’t even understand and you don’t even know what you’re angry about. It’s so hard to discuss because it’s not an antithetical conversation. You can’t because there isn’t an understanding on both sides and you can’t talk about something you don’t know anything about. You haven’t even bothered.”
Jones echoes this sentiment: “With a show like The Owl House that has put forward such incredible representation for the queer community, I mean how could we not speak out?”
Lilith Clawthorne has come a long way since I last caught up with Jones to talk about her. She’s now cursed, made up with her sister, and is basically a cool surrogate auntie to Luz. Fans love her, and it’s so fun to talk about the relationship between these two characters and how it’s been to watch it evolve. “I think something that makes a great show is a redemption arc, and what better redemption arc than Lilith?” Jones says. “Like, literally cursing her sister and doing everything she can to make her life better. And the biggest part of Eda’s life is Luz, so now she can atone for her sins by helping both of them. It’s been really special for us to see how they evolved the characters over time because Luz came in as this plucky girl who was all, ‘Everything is sunshine and roses and rainbows!’ and now there is some darkness creeping in too.”
Luz and Lilith began as enemies, and now they’re besties, but actors are often fed the unfolding narrative one script at a time with little context. “When I read the script I was with Luz because that’s all I know, and I’m learning script by script exactly what’s going on,” Robles tells me. “I was like there’s Lilith, but we don’t really trust her. Then in future episodes we see her with Hooty, things are going on, and I think maybe there’s something more to her. But also I feel as an adult that I need to be protective of Luz. I didn’t know where this was going to go, so I always kept one eye open, but I’ve been burned before. It’s a really juicy and connective relationship to unfold.”
The duo aren’t able to talk about the future, jokingly zipping their mouths shut over Zoom as talk about where the narrative is going comes into conversation. “In season one we had no idea where any of this was going, and I’d heard theories of a completely different wrap-up than is actually happening,” Jones teases. “It’s been really fun to see what they change deliberately and what they toy with.”
With a fandom like The Owl House that will latch onto each and every piece of information that leaves an actor’s mouth, it can be difficult to be active in the community without accidentally veering the conversation in a certain direction. It’s a dilemma that Robles and Jones have been faced with ever since the show’s debut, even if their overall feelings towards the fandom are ones of positivity, love, and admiration.
“I’m continuously blown away by the fandom on this show and I’ve never experienced anything like it,” Jones admits. “We were talking last night about how it’s been a year or two since we recorded some of these sessions so I don’t remember half the storyline. Obviously Lilith wasn’t in that first episode but I don’t remember what’s happening, so it’s exciting to watch as a fan of the show and find out where we left them last. It’s also about knowing that there’s a lot of fun stuff coming up that people can finally talk about, and we can finally talk about in a more public setting.”
Such popularity also comes with an unintended aura of responsibility, or not wanting to step on the shoes of those who helped bring this world to life in the first place. “Dana did the fundraiser a couple of weeks ago and had both of us read letters written by our characters,” Jones explains. “There was a part in Lilith’s letter where she talks about not really being interested in people so I texted Dana and asked, ‘Am I allowed to confirm that Lilith is ace?’ because she gave us these beautiful words to say, but that is all the information I have. There was a thing that happened early on where someone made an edit that Lilith was a lesbian and I thought it was great, I loved it.
“But then Dana was like, ‘I don’t want that kind of pressure on the show right now’ because the fandom of Steven Universe got really upset when a certain character they thought [identified] as this turned out not to be that and Dana didn’t want that on the show just yet. That’s sort of our existence where I know that this thing happened, but am I allowed to say that this thing happened? We started doing our talkback show and someone asked what instruments our character would play and I said the harp. Immediately the chat was like, ‘HARPY LILITH, HARPY LILITH CONFIRMED!’ and like no no no, nothing is confirmed, I just think she would play this cool giant instrument.”
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Robles is even further sworn to secrecy given her role as the main character, with any and all information surrounding Luz bound to attract all manner of theories. She is blunt about the reality of it all though: “If it’s really a secret it wouldn’t be that apparent,” she laughs. People think we're playing these mind games and like we’re not we’re just really not going to talk about it so nobody guesses anything. If there is anything important we are going to stay so far away from it so there’s no chance we spoil it. There’s nothing in the world I hate more than spoilers because they ruin everything so I will absolutely not be party to them.”
Then there’s the elephant in the room that haunts all fandoms - shipping. The Owl House is fortunate that it has a number of canon queer relationships spread throughout the show already ranging from Luz and Amity to Willow’s parents. We aren’t short of representation, but that obviously doesn’t stop fans from creating their own head canons that depict different couples and scenarios away from the established narrative. For the most part it’s all innocent fun, but it’s fun to hear it from the perspective of those who inhabit these characters.
“I have seen some very interesting art,” Jones laughs. “Everyone has their own creative outlet and that’s amazing, people can ship whatever they want to ship, that’s fine. But I am particular about what I will retweet or share because I don’t want to take Dana’s creation and further a head canon that might not be true or something that might not be disturbing to me might be disturbing to other people and that’s not something I’m going to send out there. People ship what they wanna ship. You do you.”
Robles matches this vibe perfectly, and I admire her immediate comparison to Twilight. “I don’t think there’s anything wrong with [shipping] like are you Team Edward or Team Jacob it doesn’t super matter,” she says. “But you don’t get to cancel the books when - spoiler alert - Jacob doesn’t win. It’s all fun, and as long as that’s all it is. You’re not writing the show, even though some stuff is cool and in some cases I might even agree.”
We talk about how fans will make observations and theories based on characters and events in the show that the actors might have never even attended, adding layers to performances in retrospect that are fascinating to unearth. Robles and Jones tell me that there hasn’t ever been a particular instance where fans have inspired them directly, but it’s fun to keep cards close to their chest as the fandom reacts in real time. Back when the first season was airing, Twitter saw #CancelLilith trending in the wake of her becoming the show’s primary villain.
“It was funny because the time that episode aired I knew what was going to happen,” Jones recalls. “I was looking on Twitter and going, ‘okay, you have your little trending party!’ but knowing and seeing where it was gonna go after that was really cool. Moments like this don’t inform my character, but they do make me laugh.”
With Season 2B well underway and episodes like Follies at the Coven Day Parade and Elsewhere and Elsewhen accelerating the plot forward at a rapid pace, the conversation around The Owl House is going to shift, change, and evolve as we draw closer to the shortened third season thanks to an abrupt cancellation by Disney. As our conversation comes to a close I want to touch on how Jones and Robles feel about all this.
“I’m really sad. I love the show, I love the characters, I love it as a fan and as someone who works on it,” Jones says. “The number of people who have poured their hearts and souls into making this show what it is, and knowing it’s coming to an end is really sad. If I had a magic wand I would obviously extend for at least two more seasons. While I’ve worked in animation before this is the biggest role I’ve had. I love my job, I have a dream job that is the dreamiest of dreams. To be able to do a show and a character with so much heart and so much care poured into all of it has been such a joy. I play the Evil Queen a lot, and I don’t often get to be the Cool Aunt in the same breath. For me, it’s been a game changer and kicked open the doors into what I want more of.”
Robles is equally as heartbroken, but proud of what the show has been able to achieve: “It’s like a dream job. I know this will be one of the best things I’ll ever get to be a part of and I’m so proud of it. “It’s doing good for the world, and that’s the dream of anyone’s job right? Not only to do something you enjoy, but to know that it’s helping people.”
You can catch The Owl House on Disney+ or new episodes every Saturday on Disney Channel. Cissy Jones and Sarah-Nicole Robles also have a weekly show on Instagram where they answer fan questions and hang out with the crew to discuss each new episode.